Nice cars other than x-fire
- Thread starter 1st Vette
- Start date
At $3 million per pipe, I think I will fold....
Not a fan of the rear fenders
LE BARON
Power User
I love the 1962 Plymouth because it is a design disaster that became a racing legend.
Here is the funny part. Plymouth heard a rumor that Chevy was making smaller cars so they panicked and shrank the Savoy. The result was this weird narrow styling that everyone hated. Sales tanked because people thought it looked like a plucked chicken.
But there was a silver lining. Because it was smaller it was lighter. And then the engineers dropped the 413 Max Wedge engine in it.
It had that crazy cross-ram intake manifold that looked like a plumbing explosion. It made over 400 horsepower.
So you had a car that looked like a confused taxi cab but it could destroy absolutely anything in a straight line. It is the definition of "don't judge a book by its cover" because this book will bite your hand off
Here is the funny part. Plymouth heard a rumor that Chevy was making smaller cars so they panicked and shrank the Savoy. The result was this weird narrow styling that everyone hated. Sales tanked because people thought it looked like a plucked chicken.
But there was a silver lining. Because it was smaller it was lighter. And then the engineers dropped the 413 Max Wedge engine in it.
It had that crazy cross-ram intake manifold that looked like a plumbing explosion. It made over 400 horsepower.
So you had a car that looked like a confused taxi cab but it could destroy absolutely anything in a straight line. It is the definition of "don't judge a book by its cover" because this book will bite your hand off
LE BARON
Power User
The 1970 Chevelle SS 454 is a legend. But the Oldsmobile 442 W-30 was a masterpiece.
Oldsmobile was the luxury brand. They didn't build rattletraps. They built cruisers. So when they decided to build a muscle car they over-engineered it. They dropped in the massive 455 cubic inch V8. It made 500 lb-ft of torque.
That number is insane. It meant you could melt the tires at 30 mph without even trying.
But the W-30 package was the cherry on top. It gave you a fiberglass hood with functional scoops and those famous red inner fender wells made of plastic to save weight. It was lighter and smarter and built better than the Chevy. It was the muscle car for the guy who had nothing to prove because he already owned the bank
Oldsmobile was the luxury brand. They didn't build rattletraps. They built cruisers. So when they decided to build a muscle car they over-engineered it. They dropped in the massive 455 cubic inch V8. It made 500 lb-ft of torque.
That number is insane. It meant you could melt the tires at 30 mph without even trying.
But the W-30 package was the cherry on top. It gave you a fiberglass hood with functional scoops and those famous red inner fender wells made of plastic to save weight. It was lighter and smarter and built better than the Chevy. It was the muscle car for the guy who had nothing to prove because he already owned the bank
LE BARON
Power User
n 1969 General Motors had a strict rule that said "No engines bigger than 400 cubic inches in a Camaro." They wanted to protect the Corvette.
But a dealer named Fred Gibb found a backdoor called the "COPO" system. It was meant for ordering fleet vehicles like taxis and garbage trucks. Gibb used it to order 69 Camaros fitted with the all-aluminum ZL1 427 racing engine.
This engine was developed for Can-Am racing. It weighed 500 pounds less than a standard iron big block and made over 500 horsepower. But to the naked eye the car looked like a base model. It had plain steel wheels with "dog dish" hubcaps. It had no stripes. It had no spoilers.
It was a $7,200 car when a normal Camaro cost $3,000. It was nearly impossible to sell back then but today it is the Holy Grail. It is a million-dollar race car disguised as a grocery getter
But a dealer named Fred Gibb found a backdoor called the "COPO" system. It was meant for ordering fleet vehicles like taxis and garbage trucks. Gibb used it to order 69 Camaros fitted with the all-aluminum ZL1 427 racing engine.
This engine was developed for Can-Am racing. It weighed 500 pounds less than a standard iron big block and made over 500 horsepower. But to the naked eye the car looked like a base model. It had plain steel wheels with "dog dish" hubcaps. It had no stripes. It had no spoilers.
It was a $7,200 car when a normal Camaro cost $3,000. It was nearly impossible to sell back then but today it is the Holy Grail. It is a million-dollar race car disguised as a grocery getter
LE BARON
Power User
In 1963 Bill Mitchell was the head of design and he was obsessed with the "Sting Ray" theme. He wanted a spine running down the back of the car so he split the rear window.
But Zora Arkus-Duntov the "Father of the Corvette" absolutely hated it. He screamed at Mitchell in meetings. He said it was dangerous because you couldn't see a police car behind you in the blind spot.
Zora eventually won the argument and the split window was removed for 1964.
But here is the irony. Back then people bought '63s and took them to body shops to cut the bar out so their car would look like the "new" '64 model. They were literally destroying million-dollar classics with a hacksaw. Today that "annoying" split window makes this the most valuable and collectible Corvette of all time.
But Zora Arkus-Duntov the "Father of the Corvette" absolutely hated it. He screamed at Mitchell in meetings. He said it was dangerous because you couldn't see a police car behind you in the blind spot.
Zora eventually won the argument and the split window was removed for 1964.
But here is the irony. Back then people bought '63s and took them to body shops to cut the bar out so their car would look like the "new" '64 model. They were literally destroying million-dollar classics with a hacksaw. Today that "annoying" split window makes this the most valuable and collectible Corvette of all time.
LE BARON
Power User
In 1954 the Corvette was struggling. It had a weak six-cylinder engine and it leaked when it rained.
Then Buick rolled out this masterpiece. The Wildcat II. It was smaller and meaner and it had the legendary Nailhead V8 engine under the hood. It was a legitimate hot rod made of fiberglass.
The coolest part is those front fenders. They call them "flying wings." They leave the front wheels and suspension completely exposed. It is totally impractical because you would fling rocks into your own face while driving but it looks absolutely incredible. GM killed it because they didn't want to make the Corvette look bad but this was clearly the better car.
Then Buick rolled out this masterpiece. The Wildcat II. It was smaller and meaner and it had the legendary Nailhead V8 engine under the hood. It was a legitimate hot rod made of fiberglass.
The coolest part is those front fenders. They call them "flying wings." They leave the front wheels and suspension completely exposed. It is totally impractical because you would fling rocks into your own face while driving but it looks absolutely incredible. GM killed it because they didn't want to make the Corvette look bad but this was clearly the better car.
LE BARON
Power User
In 1953 everyone knew that if you wanted to go fast you needed a V8 engine. Oldsmobile had the Rocket 88. Cadillac had their high-compression V8. Hudson had... an ancient flathead straight-six.
By all logic it should have lost every race.
But Hudson had a secret weapon. They built the "Step-Down" chassis. Instead of bolting the body on top of the frame like a truck they sank the floorpan down between the frame rails. It gave the Hornet a center of gravity that was inches lower than anything else on the road.
While the powerful V8s were leaning and sliding off the track the Hornet was glued to the pavement. It won 27 out of 34 NASCAR races in 1952. It literally handled so well that it didn't need the extra horsepower. It is proof that being smart is faster than being strong.
By all logic it should have lost every race.
But Hudson had a secret weapon. They built the "Step-Down" chassis. Instead of bolting the body on top of the frame like a truck they sank the floorpan down between the frame rails. It gave the Hornet a center of gravity that was inches lower than anything else on the road.
While the powerful V8s were leaning and sliding off the track the Hornet was glued to the pavement. It won 27 out of 34 NASCAR races in 1952. It literally handled so well that it didn't need the extra horsepower. It is proof that being smart is faster than being strong.
LE BARON
Power User
n 1966 everyone was obsessed with size. You had the 396 Chevelle and the 389 GTO and the 426 Hemi. They were massive heavy cars with massive heavy engines.
Then there was the Nova.
It was a compact car. It weighed nothing. But check the option box for the L79 and Chevy dropped in a 327 cubic inch Corvette V8 rated at 350 horsepower.
That is a magic number. The power-to-weight ratio was absolutely insane. While the big block guys were sitting at the green light spinning their tires trying to get 4,000 pounds of steel moving the Nova was already gone. It didn't just beat them. It embarrassed them. It is the pound-for-pound champion of the 60s.
Then there was the Nova.
It was a compact car. It weighed nothing. But check the option box for the L79 and Chevy dropped in a 327 cubic inch Corvette V8 rated at 350 horsepower.
That is a magic number. The power-to-weight ratio was absolutely insane. While the big block guys were sitting at the green light spinning their tires trying to get 4,000 pounds of steel moving the Nova was already gone. It didn't just beat them. It embarrassed them. It is the pound-for-pound champion of the 60s.
LE BARON
Power User
n the gas station scene he tells the Russian mobster that his car is a "Boss 429." But look closely.
It has a hood scoop. It has a chin spoiler. It has an automatic transmission.
Those are all dead giveaways that the car is actually a 1969 Mach 1. A real Boss 429 didn't have a shaker hood and it definitely didn't come with an automatic.
But honestly the Mach 1 was the better choice for the movie. It looks meaner. It has that blacked-out hood and the hood pins and the reflective stripes. It looks like a street brawler while the Boss 429 looks like a race car trying to be subtle. If someone stole my Mach 1 and killed my dog I would probably come out of retirement too
It has a hood scoop. It has a chin spoiler. It has an automatic transmission.
Those are all dead giveaways that the car is actually a 1969 Mach 1. A real Boss 429 didn't have a shaker hood and it definitely didn't come with an automatic.
But honestly the Mach 1 was the better choice for the movie. It looks meaner. It has that blacked-out hood and the hood pins and the reflective stripes. It looks like a street brawler while the Boss 429 looks like a race car trying to be subtle. If someone stole my Mach 1 and killed my dog I would probably come out of retirement too
LE BARON
Power User
The Pontiac GTO did not invent the muscle car. Oldsmobile did it 15 years earlier.
In 1949 and 1950 Oldsmobile did something radical. They took their massive high-compression "Rocket" V8 engine which was designed for their huge luxury limousines and they stuffed it into their smallest lightest coupe body.
The result was the Rocket 88.
It was an absolute revelation. Before this cars were slow and heavy with flathead engines that struggled to get up a hill. The Olds 88 was a missile. It won 10 out of 19 NASCAR races in 1950. It was so fast that Ike Turner wrote the song "Rocket 88" about it which many people consider the first Rock and Roll song in history. It started the horsepower war and we should all say thank you.
I know, it's not supposed to be here, but here it is anyway
In 1949 and 1950 Oldsmobile did something radical. They took their massive high-compression "Rocket" V8 engine which was designed for their huge luxury limousines and they stuffed it into their smallest lightest coupe body.
The result was the Rocket 88.
It was an absolute revelation. Before this cars were slow and heavy with flathead engines that struggled to get up a hill. The Olds 88 was a missile. It won 10 out of 19 NASCAR races in 1950. It was so fast that Ike Turner wrote the song "Rocket 88" about it which many people consider the first Rock and Roll song in history. It started the horsepower war and we should all say thank you.
I know, it's not supposed to be here, but here it is anyway
LE BARON
Power User
Plymouth only built 11 of these cars. Seven for the US and four for export. That is it.
Why so few? Because in 1971 nobody wanted them. The Hemi engine option cost $800 which was a fortune back then. Insurance agents laughed at you if you tried to insure a 426-horsepower convertible. Dealers literally couldn't give them away.
Fast forward to today.
Because nobody bought them back then they are now the rarest muscle cars on the planet. One of these sold at auction for 3.5 million dollars. It is the ultimate example of "I should have bought one when they were cheap" because now they cost more than a private island
Why so few? Because in 1971 nobody wanted them. The Hemi engine option cost $800 which was a fortune back then. Insurance agents laughed at you if you tried to insure a 426-horsepower convertible. Dealers literally couldn't give them away.
Fast forward to today.
Because nobody bought them back then they are now the rarest muscle cars on the planet. One of these sold at auction for 3.5 million dollars. It is the ultimate example of "I should have bought one when they were cheap" because now they cost more than a private island
LE BARON
Power User
Preston Tucker wanted to build the safest car in the world. While Ford and Chevy were selling warmed-over pre-war designs Tucker built a spaceship.
He put the engine in the back. But not just any engine. He used a Franklin helicopter engine modified for the street. He added a padded dashboard and a pop-out windshield so passengers wouldn't get cut in a crash.
But the coolest feature is that center headlight. It is called the "Cyclops Eye" and it actually turns with the steering wheel to light your way around corners. That is a feature luxury cars brag about today and Tucker did it 75 years ago.
The government and the big auto companies came down on him hard. They sued him and bankrupted him. He was eventually found innocent of all charges but by then his factory was gone. Only 51 cars were ever made. It is the greatest "What If" in American history.
He put the engine in the back. But not just any engine. He used a Franklin helicopter engine modified for the street. He added a padded dashboard and a pop-out windshield so passengers wouldn't get cut in a crash.
But the coolest feature is that center headlight. It is called the "Cyclops Eye" and it actually turns with the steering wheel to light your way around corners. That is a feature luxury cars brag about today and Tucker did it 75 years ago.
The government and the big auto companies came down on him hard. They sued him and bankrupted him. He was eventually found innocent of all charges but by then his factory was gone. Only 51 cars were ever made. It is the greatest "What If" in American history.
LE BARON
Power User
The 426 Hemi was a legend but it was heavy and expensive and it hated idling in traffic.
Then Plymouth released this. The A12 Road Runner. It had the 440 Six Pack engine which meant it had three two-barrel carburetors. It made massive torque instantly. On the street stoplight-to-stoplight this car would jump out on a Hemi car before the Hemi guy even got his foot down.
Plymouth was so serious about weight reduction that the hood is fiberglass and literally lifts off. There are no hinges and no latch. Just four pins holding it down. It came with plain black steel wheels because hubcaps were just extra weight. It is raw and cheap and nasty
Then Plymouth released this. The A12 Road Runner. It had the 440 Six Pack engine which meant it had three two-barrel carburetors. It made massive torque instantly. On the street stoplight-to-stoplight this car would jump out on a Hemi car before the Hemi guy even got his foot down.
Plymouth was so serious about weight reduction that the hood is fiberglass and literally lifts off. There are no hinges and no latch. Just four pins holding it down. It came with plain black steel wheels because hubcaps were just extra weight. It is raw and cheap and nasty
LE BARON
Power User
AMC was the little guy. They didn't have the budget of Ford or GM. They couldn't afford to be boring. If they built a boring car nobody would buy it.
So their designer Dick Teague decided to go crazy.
Look at those front fenders. They have these massive humps over the wheels that exaggerate the curve. The hood is impossibly long. The roofline is impossibly low. It looks like a cartoon of a muscle car come to life.
A Camaro from 1973 looks handsome but the Javelin AMX looks exotic. It looks like it is going 100 mph while it is parked in front of a tree. It proves that you don't need a massive budget to have massive style.
So their designer Dick Teague decided to go crazy.
Look at those front fenders. They have these massive humps over the wheels that exaggerate the curve. The hood is impossibly long. The roofline is impossibly low. It looks like a cartoon of a muscle car come to life.
A Camaro from 1973 looks handsome but the Javelin AMX looks exotic. It looks like it is going 100 mph while it is parked in front of a tree. It proves that you don't need a massive budget to have massive style.