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Cariboocreek

Cariboocreek

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...kept my integrity.

I have had my Goldwing for sale for a few weeks and had a solid offer from a person in Newfoundland. We agreed on price, agreed I would store the bike until he could fly out and pick it up. Then he throws in the stinky diaper. Wants a bill of sale for $1000. A bill of sale in the full purchase price amount would cost him $3k in pst/gst (I guess in NL you pay tax on private sales). I said no, I wasn’t prepared to falsify a legal document.

He emailed this morning and walked from the deal. Too bad cause selling a toy in this market will be tough, but some things are just not worth it.
 
Tough to lose a sale but you never know how these things can come back and bite you.

This will work out.
 
Ministry Ontario has never flagged a bos on a motorcycle. Personally, I don't have the balls, but I know several guys that only paid *$100* for their bikes.
In ON, if the Ministry smells something fishy on the reported sale price of a car / truck, they send a letter to the seller for confirmation. I've recieved more than a couple of these, which promptly found their way to the waste bin, with no further correspondence. (not delivered registered).
 
Cariboocreek said:
...kept my integrity.

I have had my Goldwing for sale for a few weeks and had a solid offer from a person in Newfoundland. We agreed on price, agreed I would store the bike until he could fly out and pick it up. Then he throws in the stinky diaper. Wants a bill of sale for $1000. A bill of sale in the full purchase price amount would cost him $3k in pst/gst (I guess in NL you pay tax on private sales). I said no, I wasn’t prepared to falsify a legal document.

He emailed this morning and walked from the deal. Too bad cause selling a toy in this market will be tough, but some things are just not worth it.
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That's too bad Al. Yeah. Alberta, NWT, Yukon and Nunavut are the only places that do not double screw residents over on private sales by charging taxes again. The whole HST system is a joke as they even end up paying a tax on a tax which blows me away. Every province that taxes used vehicles each time they are sold all have a bit of a different system but it pretty much works out the same. Kudos on you for not bowing down to the NL guy. I would be surprised if he got away with it anyway as it's not likely the first time someone has walked in to register a used vehicle with a sales receipt only showing 1/20 of the value of the vehicle....lol...
 
Rruuff Day said:
That's too bad Al. Yeah. Alberta, NWT, Yukon and Nunavut are the only places that do not double screw residents over on private sales by charging taxes again. The whole HST system is a joke as they even end up paying a tax on a tax which blows me away. Every province that taxes used vehicles each time they are sold all have a bit of a different system but it pretty much works out the same. Kudos on you for not bowing down to the NL guy. I would be surprised if he got away with it anyway as it's not likely the first time someone has walked in to register a used vehicle with a sales receipt only showing 1/20 of the value of the vehicle....lol...
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I guess for me it was an ethical issue. Its actually lying.

My father always said that integrity is what you do when nobody is watching.
 
SN-III said:
I'd write it that way ...
let anyone change it ...
I wouldn't care as my original copy wouldn't change.
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He could have. I would have just printed a BOS in the purchase price (no text). He could do with it whatever he wants. But I doubt he would. They always want someone to take the fall.
 
Cariboocreek said:
He could have. I would have just printed a BOS in the purchase price (no text). He could do with it whatever he wants. But I doubt he would. They always want someone to take the fall.
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exactly the way I see it too ...
buyer thinking the seller should be the scammer ... argh !

It's just not logical for a good buyer to back out when
the seller will not agree to collaborate in something discretionary.

It's a part of business discipline more than people would know
as much as I continuously stress by customers by never obliging.
I won't get into details however I have to be on top of liability issues
with pretty much everything - just to protect business.
(no different than other business owners should be)
 
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Cariboocreek said:
...kept my integrity.

I have had my Goldwing for sale for a few weeks and had a solid offer from a person in Newfoundland. We agreed on price, agreed I would store the bike until he could fly out and pick it up. Then he throws in the stinky diaper. Wants a bill of sale for $1000. A bill of sale in the full purchase price amount would cost him $3k in pst/gst (I guess in NL you pay tax on private sales). I said no, I wasn’t prepared to falsify a legal document.

He emailed this morning and walked from the deal. Too bad cause selling a toy in this market will be tough, but some things are just not worth it.
Click to expand...

have him fill in the bill of sale and you sign it before the numbers are put in,
you have no liability to check it out

now is he paying, one bank draft or 2?

or 2 sets of cash when he gets there

why would you care what he does with a blank bill of sale, just keep a copy of the bill of sale before the numbers are put in,

as long as he fills it in who cares

the LAW IN ALBERTA for deceased person is



wait for it




go over to the corner and fill in the bill of sale and have a second person forge the deceased person or the incapacitated person signature and bring it back and we will register it

true story, and the province does not care

ONLY IF FRAUD AND OTHER FAMILY ME,BERS COMPLAIN TO POLICE WILL THE BILL OF SALE BE OVERTURNED

also in this case put needs repairs, or parts bike only, or no warranty express or implied

THEN YOU ARE PROTECTED


sell the bike and keep your conscience it will survive

and yes I am all for telling the truth but .........
 
just got 15 grand off a new car, yet if it gets stolen and totaled then I am out 11 grand as most dealers are only 3 or 4 off retail, is that fair no way

life goes on, and the govt interferes in everything
why can they collect tax on a vehicle you paid taxes on especially on a private sale

on land titles form in Alberta you put the value of the land being transferred for the purpose of paying a fee based on a percentage,
you are penalized if you put the fair market value, I always tell folks to put the repossession price a bank would sell it for

it goes through and land titles does not care

jeff you friendly financial advisor

14 charges, no convictions. ha-ha
 
Jeffer2013 said:
do you,pay your trades people cash

SHAME ON YOU, MAKE SURE THEY DECLARE IT AND PAY THE TAXES

rant off
Click to expand...
off topic on my part but can add that
I 100% agree on the cash trade stuff...
being a bad thing which is a preventable action
that is totally in the control of the buyer.
An action that actually has the buyer themselves
creating the most unsatisfied customers ...
 
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Buddy is a moron, obviuosly doesn't understand how the laws work in his own province. I lived there for 5 years, I'm familiar with how the NL gov't screws you. It's pretty much the same way the NS gov't screws you.

You could have sold it to him and given him a bill of sale for a grand with no issues on your end. Here's why:

The issue would have been for buddy boy when he tried to register it. NL does what NS does with used vehicles. You basically pay taxes based on what the "book value" is. What you actually paid for the vehicle is pretty much irrelevant.

There are a couple ways around that, but a "bill of sale"is not one of them. The only real way is to have the vehicle appraised by a certified appraiser. This is what i had to do (in NS) when I bought my 88. DMV said book value was 55 grand (!!!!) but I was ready for them (done this dance before) and I had an appraisal for 5 grand in my hands. I paid taxes on 5 grand.

Bill of sale only really comes into the equation if the sale price is higher than the book value, in which case you pay taxes on the higher valuation.

from the NL tax info/veh registration web site:

"Vehicle Valuations

Retail sales tax shall be paid on the value of the vehicle as determined at the time of acquisition. For taxation purposes, that value is deemed to be the greater of the actual purchase price or the average wholesale value as determined by the Minister. For vehicles considered as salvage or wrecked vehicles under the Highway Traffic Act, the Minister may choose another method of determining value for tax purposes.

Tax Payable

Where the actual purchase price is less than the average wholesale value, retail sales tax will be charged on the higher value. However, at the time of transfer of ownership a person may submit an affidavit, signed by the seller and purchaser of the vehicle, attesting to the actual purchase price and pay sales tax on that lesser amount. The affidavit must be sworn to before a Commissioner of Oaths, a Justice of the Peace or a Notary Public.

A person who pays retail sales tax on book value may submit the required affidavit at any time up to three years from purchase date of a vehicle and request a refund of the tax paid on the difference between book value and actual purchase price. Alternatively, a taxpayer who is not satisfied with the determined value for tax purposes or who cannot provide the required affidavit, may obtain a written appraisal, at the taxpayer’s expense, from an approved appraiser. The appraisal must be obtained within 5 days of vehicle acquisition. Where an acceptable appraisal is provided, the valuation for tax will be the greater of the actual purchase price or the appraised value. A person dissatisfied with a valuation for tax purposes may also appeal in writing to the Minister of Finance for a review of that valuation. "

As you can see by the last few lines, if he wanted to pay less tax with an appraisal, he'd have to get the appraiser to lie about it. That's not going to happen, most appraisers won't risk their accreditation on it.

All this is on the buyer, nothing is on the seller.

So basically, the gov't has set it up that they will get thier pound of flesh. Whether it's justified or not. They did it many years ago for the very reason buddy boy wanted a BoS for a grand; they knew people were lying about purchase prices and went to taxing the book values instead of the claimed purchase price.

Buddy boy doesn't have a clue......I would have sold it to him and let him do the dance with his prov gov't.

Or, if you wanted to be a real "P", tell him yes and when he gets there to take the bike hand him the registration with the actual sale price written in. He can either ride the bike home, or buy himself a return plane ticket.....either way, when he gets home he's still going to have to pay book value for taxes.

But, truthfully, you're probably better off not making that sale. Sounds like chumly is nothing but a problem and you would likely hear back from him if ANYTHING went wrong. From a broken clip to an engine blowing up.....best to just avoid those types of guys.
 
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Receipts mean nothing these days on used vehicles. To many people were being dishonest so the Ministry now charges tax on the blue book price. Lots of times it doesn't go in the Ministries favour either. I sold a 911 Porsche to a lady several years ago. She also wanted a bogus bill of sale. I said no but she took the car anyways and went to change the ownership and they charged her tax on the blue book price of the car. Any guesses???? They charged he tax on a car they said was only worth $14,000.00 You find me a 911 that isn't totalled or even in parts for that price. My car was mint and had thousands in after market upgrades on it and only had 43,000 K's on it. She phoned me later and couldn't thank me enough for saying no to giving her a receipt that was 4 times the price. The government needs to get their chit together. LOL.
 
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