12cents
Power User
Beware........
Covid19 Fallout Observations
- Thread starter Rruuff Day
- Start date
So, USA starts opening up and the "death estimate" balloons from 72,000 by August to 134,000!
Everyone has to get back to work eventually, but doubling your death count makes it seem a little premature to me........
Everyone has to get back to work eventually, but doubling your death count makes it seem a little premature to me........
Given then the US is almost at 72k deaths today or will be by end of week it's likely that the forecast (and subsequent revisions) were way too optimistic so maybe this is just a correction it needed.
Good theory, but the news (admittedly, CNN) said it was an “adjustment” directly related to relaxing their lockdown.
not surprising as the virus is still out there, still viable and as soon as you start throwing “fresh” hosts at it....well, we all know how that goes...
72k must be from somewhere I haven’t seen because they were at approx 68.5k last I saw on CNN.
they’re all staggering numbers no matter how you look at it. Hell, they’ve got more “cases” now than NS has total population. Thats just scary, at least from where I’m sitting it is.
- Thread starter
- #446
It is unfortunate that the driving factors behind re-opening businesses and easing restrictions is based on economics, public outcry, and shortsighted politicians basing decisions on 2 or 3 point curve data, and the decisions made by other countries. People, for the most part, either do not understand the longer term negative potential of early optimism when the data is not yet logically supportive. I sincerely hope I am wrong but it is way too early to be relaxing. Montreal is a prime example. The reasoning behind delaying lifting restrictions was crowded hospitals and the data from Quebec public heath indicating there would likely be a surge in new cases. And the US.... well...they are headed down a nasty road. If we are to actually flatten the curve and see a downturn over more than a day or two, I'm sorry to say we need to suck it up and suffer our personal and economic woes for some time to come. I apologize for a 'downer' opinion but a level of caution and overkill now has a better chance of gaining on this crisis than premature thinking that things are already getting back to normal.
- Thread starter
- #447
CNN is typically a day or more behind live case numbers. This site is about as live reporting as it gets.
Coronavirus Update (Live): 134,071,050 Cases and 2,906,605 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer
Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...
www.worldometers.info
The scary part is the future for me. People are getting antsy, angry and very unemployed very suddenly. It's understandable for leaderships to bend but loosening up at this point means we may well be stretching this episode much longer and at the cost of actual lives. Leadership needs to earn their pay during these times and make some hard and unpopular decisions.
Yeah, like showing a little solidarity with Canadians that are suffering (economically) and forgoing their huge parliamentary paychecks...to say nothing of the endless perrks, travel budgets, expense accounts and assorted “slush funds”.
I wonder if Justin is going to pack up the family again this year and head out on a “working vacation” on the taxpayers backs? Wouldn’t surprise me in the least if he did....
- Thread starter
- #451
It is my fear that the economic woes many are experiencing at the moment that seem drastic may be minor in comparison what the future holds if too much relaxation is considered. If allowing a reasonable mandate for minimizing exposure does not work or is not adhered when people become too comfortable, where does that put us once that is realized. Lets see how Cargill makes out with minimizing exposure and going back to work after 936 plant workers contracted Covid. Those workers are afraid to go back to work and most are foreign workers who by our standards have experienced economic woes their entire lives, but still recognize that this pandemic is far from over. I don't profess to know your line of work and whether your business is mandated to not be in operation, or is wholly dependent on the prosperity of others as you had indicated that the oil slump affected you prior to Covid. I would honestly be ecstatic to see you, and the rest of Alberta smiling, with business booming again, but my fear of confidence too soon that restrictions can be lifted, could result in more dire straits in the near future that may not see economic recovery in this country for many years to come. Again. This is JMO and agreeing to disagree, especially when I tend to voice my opinion often, is paramount. I also do not care about the US other than their economic situation is tied to ours to some degree. I'm more concerned that the rest of Canada looks upon the US, Quebec, New Brunswick, and Manitoba lifting restrictions and opening up, and thinking if they can do it, why can't we? The whole situation scares the hell out of me and I want 'normal' again for all of us.
Y
YFCvii
Please try to not speculate on my own situation. I’m not being selfish this way.
Not really speaking for Large Corps with unionized workers. Thats a whole different game. Its also not just Oil ... been this way for 5 years ... however that would help of course
Not really speaking for Large Corps with unionized workers. Thats a whole different game. Its also not just Oil ... been this way for 5 years ... however that would help of course
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- Thread starter
- #453
Not speculating on your situation at all and I apologize if it appeared that way. Just trying to hypothesize on the broad picture for the recovery and prosperity of all.
ddgermann
Power User
Here is a couple of good places to keep up to date on this mess.
To offer some perspective to your discussion above I will relay what going on here. Thailand basically shut down and locked down the entire country. Beyond essential traffic (food, required goods, and police-military) all traffic by land or air was stopped and enforced by roadblocks/airport closures. All mass transit and bus services were halted nationally.
The infections daily dropped off dramatically and quickly. The last few days have shown 1-3 new cases per day reported. Thailand was aggressive and fast to introduce the measures above and now are in control of this situation.
The economy here has been devastated and there are people in big trouble now with their incomes nonexistent for some time to come.
The local travel and certain business restrictions were lifted with conditions a couple of days ago and the city here and country is slowly coming back to life. This is happening in various levels and forms throughout the country. Although some federally mandated restrictions still apply. For example, foreigners either returning or visiting Thailand will be blocked for at least another 2 months according to the latest information.
People here are not whining on the news, they are supporting each other with what they can give or share.
So an intelligent evaluation to get the country back to work while protecting key sectors and groups is taking place here. Interprovincial travel is still greatly restricted but the population can in a large degree get back to work under strict conditions to protect from and quickly identify and manage any exposures.
It seems somewhat unclear what Canada is actually doing as a nation to come together and get people back to work. The situation appears to be somewhat polarized by the news coverage. The modeling is bleak and realistically a vaccine is minimally months away if developed and effectively vetted in the next year.
While people on retirement incomes and those with sufficient savings can wait this out with relative comfort; their good behavior and support of the less fortunate will be paramount in everyone getting through this time. However, the people living month to month for various reasons that cannot work now; which there are many, need to get back to work. Industries need to get moving again so there are jobs to go back to. Personally I find the Cargil coverage disgusting mainstream media scaremongering and not at all productive or realistic. We pretty much need to eat so one way or the other this needs to happen, or else everyone can go out and hunt. Oh wait... that is a practical solution for a limited few.
For example, the fact you can go to home depot and buy an air conditioner or some new lighting is ridiculous in comparison to shutting down a vital meat packing plant. Why wasn't the media all over the big retailers that were allowed to stay open while the family hardware store was ordered to shut? You can think about that and answer it for yourself. Unfortunately, we are in a large degree conditioned by the media to think and develop opinions in a certain way.
Personally I feel it is time to develop and execute a plan to identify and protect certain sectors of our society and get everyone else back to work. Certainly, everyone has a viewpoint and some constructive discussion is always a good thing to both learn a different perspective and possibly develop a compromise that actually might work out.
To offer some perspective to your discussion above I will relay what going on here. Thailand basically shut down and locked down the entire country. Beyond essential traffic (food, required goods, and police-military) all traffic by land or air was stopped and enforced by roadblocks/airport closures. All mass transit and bus services were halted nationally.
The infections daily dropped off dramatically and quickly. The last few days have shown 1-3 new cases per day reported. Thailand was aggressive and fast to introduce the measures above and now are in control of this situation.
The economy here has been devastated and there are people in big trouble now with their incomes nonexistent for some time to come.
The local travel and certain business restrictions were lifted with conditions a couple of days ago and the city here and country is slowly coming back to life. This is happening in various levels and forms throughout the country. Although some federally mandated restrictions still apply. For example, foreigners either returning or visiting Thailand will be blocked for at least another 2 months according to the latest information.
People here are not whining on the news, they are supporting each other with what they can give or share.
So an intelligent evaluation to get the country back to work while protecting key sectors and groups is taking place here. Interprovincial travel is still greatly restricted but the population can in a large degree get back to work under strict conditions to protect from and quickly identify and manage any exposures.
It seems somewhat unclear what Canada is actually doing as a nation to come together and get people back to work. The situation appears to be somewhat polarized by the news coverage. The modeling is bleak and realistically a vaccine is minimally months away if developed and effectively vetted in the next year.
While people on retirement incomes and those with sufficient savings can wait this out with relative comfort; their good behavior and support of the less fortunate will be paramount in everyone getting through this time. However, the people living month to month for various reasons that cannot work now; which there are many, need to get back to work. Industries need to get moving again so there are jobs to go back to. Personally I find the Cargil coverage disgusting mainstream media scaremongering and not at all productive or realistic. We pretty much need to eat so one way or the other this needs to happen, or else everyone can go out and hunt. Oh wait... that is a practical solution for a limited few.
For example, the fact you can go to home depot and buy an air conditioner or some new lighting is ridiculous in comparison to shutting down a vital meat packing plant. Why wasn't the media all over the big retailers that were allowed to stay open while the family hardware store was ordered to shut? You can think about that and answer it for yourself. Unfortunately, we are in a large degree conditioned by the media to think and develop opinions in a certain way.
Personally I feel it is time to develop and execute a plan to identify and protect certain sectors of our society and get everyone else back to work. Certainly, everyone has a viewpoint and some constructive discussion is always a good thing to both learn a different perspective and possibly develop a compromise that actually might work out.
The hardware stores aren’t open so you can shop, they are open so you can purchase repair materials if needed.
For example: burst water pipe means you can’t wash, use the toilet or (in many cases) cook. Without access to the materials to repair the burst, people can end up in a bad way, very quickly.
That goes for the other parts of a home too: electrical failures, basement flooding, roof leaks, broken windows, non functional door handle or locks, etc.
A similar argument could be made for your air conditioner example. Ie: Heat wave, sweltering heat in the house you are sequestered to because of covid. No air condtioner in a heat wave can mean deaths for many vulnerable people (ie: old, overweight, etc). Having access to a store that sells fans or a/c in that situ means they are “essential”. Especially since tou are unlikely to get a repair man to cone to your house these days. No repair means you have to replace, which means the store has to be open to buy one.
Not to mention, walking into those stores is like walking into an isolation ward (at least it is here). Max number of 5 strictly enforced, Distancing strictly enforced, Clerks sequestered behind multiple layer of plexiglass, they won’t touch your goods (you have to either scan them yourself or its on a rolling cart), get your own receipt off the machine, no cash payments, etc.
Walmart is also open which would seem odd to most people thinking “essential services”, but the store sells food so its also allowed to be open. That you can go buy a dvd or television in the same store is just the way it is. But they’re not allowed to open becuase they sell dvd’s and tv’s, its because they have a large food market section. You could also make the argument that clothing could be considered “essential”.
Sometimes, it is hard to understand why one store is open and others are closed, but there’s usually a good reason for it....its just the reason might not be as obvious as some would think.
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Overall, most of us are stuck between a rock and a hard place. If we open too soon (whatever or whenever that may be) we risk of prolonging the epidemic. If we remain closed, we go bankrupt. I'd rather have my family alive and well with nothing to their name then have them in ICU or worse. Loosing your business and home, while a terrible prospect, it can be rebuilt. It has happened numerous times, after the depression, wars, other pandemics. For older folks, it may be more difficult as they do not have the luxury of time. For the young, less experience. There are no winners in any war, and we at war with this virus. I'm buckled down for the ride, counting the days when this will be under some control and we can get to a new normal, hopefully soon. If this goes beyond September, no income, expenses need to be paid, need to eat, I'll cross that bridge if I get there. In the meantime, stay well stay safe. This too shall pass.
ddgermann
Power User
It was not actually about the hardware store and why it is open. Pretty obvious that one may need some things to repair the home. It's about the division on which stores were allowed to remain open and not. Perhaps I should have used a more clear example for you. Like a liquor or weed store being open. Is this an essential service compared to a vital meat packing plant? It is affecting the entire industry all the way from the consumer to the producer.
LE BARON
Power User
The W.H.O. said the only way to beat it down was TEST - TEST -TEST
The countries that did it from the get go have pretty well accomplished that.
In the mean time most of the more advanced countries, including Canada, are trying to get by asking people how they are feeling today. LMAOROFL, except it is not funny.
A little bit of money, comparatively, at the beginning would have saved one hell of a lot of dinaro being spent now to shore up the economy. Oh well, I guess the governments will pay for it. Wait a minute, we are the government.
Bet you the GST goes up pretty soon but maybe not before the next election. We the people will pay the government largess off in no time.
The countries that did it from the get go have pretty well accomplished that.
In the mean time most of the more advanced countries, including Canada, are trying to get by asking people how they are feeling today. LMAOROFL, except it is not funny.
A little bit of money, comparatively, at the beginning would have saved one hell of a lot of dinaro being spent now to shore up the economy. Oh well, I guess the governments will pay for it. Wait a minute, we are the government.
Bet you the GST goes up pretty soon but maybe not before the next election. We the people will pay the government largess off in no time.
LE BARON
Power User
LE BARON
Power User
Hope he dresses up for it!