Electrical Question

[1st Vette]

The kitchen in my house had newspaper shoved in the walls to hold drywall paste and in the middle of it all was a live wire with ends exposed! Can you imagine what could have happened if any fluids got in there!
I also found live wires taped together in the ceiling. plus several hidden junction boxes! Love older homes!

Sleep with one eye open.

 

[Murray20c8]

Sleep with one eye open.

We renovated top to bottom about 15 years ago so that I could lose both eyes!

 

[1st Vette]

I've done two renovations in 22 years so a lot of my electrical has been upgraded. What I couldn't upgrade without tearing the who;e house down got GFI's at the panel. None of the original wiring was grounded. It was a big undertaking. 2 x 4 walls with a combination of newspapers and vermiculite for insulation that had settled 2/3 of the way down over the years. Re-insulated some of the walls and instead of tearing the rest apart, tore off the old siding and wrapped the house with Tyvek and 2 inches of SM. Made a huge difference. We use to chill a bottle of wine by sitting it close to an outside wall near an electrical outlet.... lol...

I have seen more than one house from perhaps the 40’s on the east coast that had seaweed in the walls for insulation. Or banked around the bottom couple of feet on the outside walls. I suppose the seaweed in the walls could have been fairly effective given that it’s not what’s used for insulation it’s the air spaces it contains that actually has the insulating value. Same applies to Fiberglas, Rockwool , etc. I hope it was white wine and not red that you were chilling .

 

[1st Vette]

We renovated top to bottom about 15 years ago so that I could lose both eyes!

I have seen things in the 45 years I was in the business that would curl your hair. The problem is that in most cases the danger isn’t evident until something goes sideways and someone is shocked or electrocuted, and yes there is a difference, or there is a fire . That’s why gas and electrical installations are regulated by the government in all jurisdictions in the country and not municipal governments like building or mechanical permits for example. In the NWT gas and electrical permits and inspections are a division of the Justice Department . If your plumber makes a mistake you get water on your floor. If your gas fitter screws up your floor ends up in your neighbours yard.

 

[Vettenut]

No coins required. But thanks for the offer. I’m just happy to be of some help. If you look in the back of the box with the three wire and two wire you can see at the bottom of the box that the cable clamp is missing. That indicates to me that it was removed to fish in the two wire cable when the dishwasher was added. Unless of course you removed it for some reason?
To measure current/amperage you would generally use a clamp on ammeter. Your reading of 48 volts does have me curious if in fact it isn’t connected at either end as that is higher than you would expect to see in that situation. If I were there with a meter and had a good look around I could sort it out but alas . Do you have any electrician friends or relatives ?.And I don’t mean the guy that wired his garage referencing YouTube, lol.

I do have some electrician friends like Daniel ... the guy that did my panel .... will give him a call later on as we will be putting a 100 a panel in my new garage

Hes crazy busy but will help me out ... I have never really touched that box as I have had no reason to until now

you cant really see it but the clamp is there on top and thats the only wire that will inhabit that box so i should be ok there

Best thing about this forum is that its filled with alot of non Vette knowledge !!

 

[Hanko_]

Actually the number of receptacles required in a kitchen is determined by the amount of counter space that is there. You can easily have the requirement for 15 receptacles in some of today’s large houses . Also don’t forget that code, all codes, are minimum requirements .And you are only permitted two three wire split receptacles on a 15 amp two pole breaker and no two can be adjacent. So if you had a very small kitchen with let’s say four feet of counter that would require only two outlets you would have to run two three wire circuits as the receptacles would be adjacent. The best and most usual method now is to install 20 amp dedicated circuits for each receptacle, one breaker, one receptacle. Of course utilizing 20 amp rated receptacles.

I just refreshed my memory by looking at section 26. You're correct. Thanks. Typical sized kitchen counter length will dictate 3 splits, smaller (townhouses) for 2.
I prefer splits over single circuit 20 amps, as you can plug 2 hi heat loads into the same outlet.

 

[Murray20c8]

I just refreshed my memory by looking at section 26. You're correct. Thanks. Typical sized kitchen counter length will dictate 3 splits, smaller (townhouses) for 2.
I prefer splits over single circuit 20 amps, as you can plug 2 hi heat loads into the same outlet.

Ya, but now they double the outlets. I put 6 circuits in our kitchen. I love LED lights now as you can put almost your whole house lights on one circuit! Frees up breakers for more kitchen outlets
We could only get 135 amp panel on our pole and 60 of that goes to the barn. Tough to distribute the power requirements needed with today's junk!

 

[Rruuff Day]

When I was a lad in public school, (50's) we lived in a tiny house that had NO insulation in the walls. In fact, I recall going in the attic and looking down into the open cavity.
Heat was from a stove oil heater, adjustable from 1 to 6. On 6, the lower 10" of the inner "tank" would glow red. We had the truck in often in winter to refill the 200 gal tank outside.

When I was youg, all we had for heat was the kitchen wood cook stove. I slept up stairs and there was a grate in the ceiling above the stove which let some heat into the upstairs. Use to wake up in the morning and you could see your breath.

 

[Black 03 Z06]

Stayed at a friends cottage one weekend. Lying in bed you could look out through the siding and see the snowmobiles parked outside. Zero insulation and only a kitchen stove to add any warmth. Everyone was too cold to get up and stoke the beast. I hate being cold.

 

[Rruuff Day]

I have seen things in the 45 years I was in the business that would curl your hair. The problem is that in most cases the danger isn’t evident until something goes sideways and someone is shocked or electrocuted, and yes there is a difference, or there is a fire . That’s why gas and electrical installations are regulated by the government in all jurisdictions in the country and not municipal governments like building or mechanical permits for example. In the NWT gas and electrical permits and inspections are a division of the Justice Department . If your plumber makes a mistake you get water on your floor. If your gas fitter screws up your floor ends up in your neighbours yard.

We've had a few houses that left their lots here in Alberta. I was the construction site inspector on an underground replacement project in the 80's when the contractor hit a steel gas line digging with the backhoe. Didn't rupture it. Basically only scuffed off the plastic coating. He said we'll just wrap it with tape and carry on. Yeah right... I called the gas company and they came out and had a look. They said it looked ok but they would couple a new section in anyway. Two months later the post office blew up at midnight and the brick chimney was the only thing left half standing. It embedded a window frame into the side of a house 50 feet away. The gas company investigated and the main they fixed had a coupler connection just outside of my excavation they weren't aware of and when we hooked the line two month earlier, it had pulled the pipe some at the coupler and was leaking slowly. The community ground is all sand and the gas chased the service line to the post office. The furnace cut in at midnight and that was all she wrote. Supposedly the postman had been smelling gas for a couple days but didn't report it.I was glad I was on site and did the right thing as we'd likely still be in court if I'd just let him rewrap it. Due diligence does have it's rewards.

 

[1st Vette]

We've had a few houses that left their lots here in Alberta. I was the construction site inspector on an underground replacement project in the 80's when the contractor hit a steel gas line digging with the backhoe. Didn't rupture it. Basically only scuffed off the plastic coating. He said we'll just wrap it with tape and carry on. Yeah right... I called the gas company and they came out and had a look. They said it looked ok but they would couple a new section in anyway. Two months later the post office blew up at midnight and the brick chimney was the only thing left half standing. It embedded a window frame into the side of a house 50 feet away. The gas company investigated and the main they fixed had a coupler connection just outside of my excavation they weren't aware of and when we hooked the line two month earlier, it had pulled the pipe some at the coupler and was leaking slowly. The community ground is all sand and the gas chased the service line to the post office. The furnace cut in at midnight and that was all she wrote. Supposedly the postman had been smelling gas for a couple days but didn't report it.I was glad I was on site and did the right thing as we'd likely still be in court if I'd just let him rewrap it. Due diligence does have it's rewards.

Every time you see a news report that shows a smoking hole in the ground and debris scattered hell west and crooked before they even say anything you can be pretty sure what caused it. Personally I wouldn’t buy a property that has nat gas or propane nor would I like to live beside one.
I realize that in some areas there isn’t much choice but I definitely would prefer to avoid it if at all possible. Gas explosions are basically the same as thermobaric bombs which are as close to nuclear blasts as you can get.

Thermobaric weapon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Murray20c8]

Personally I wouldn’t buy a property that has nat gas or propane nor would I like to live beside one.

Phew! One less thing to worry about!

 

[Rruuff Day]

Every time you see a news report that shows a smoking hole in the ground and debris scattered hell west and crooked before they even say anything you can be pretty sure what caused it. Personally I wouldn’t buy a property that has nat gas or propane nor would I like to live beside one.
I realize that in some areas there isn’t much choice but I definitely would prefer to avoid it if at all possible. Gas explosions are basically the same as thermobaric bombs which are as close to nuclear blasts as you can get.

Thermobaric weapon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

what do you heat with?

 

[OL Yeller]

Ya, but now they double the outlets. I put 6 circuits in our kitchen. I love LED lights now as you can put almost your whole house lights on one circuit! Frees up breakers for more kitchen outlets
We could only get 135 amp panel on our pole and 60 of that goes to the barn. Tough to distribute the power requirements needed with today's junk!

Why could you only get 135 Amp...Here most put in 200 automatically...Maybe Douggie has you all rationed up-a-long

 

[1st Vette]

what do you heat with?

We have an oil forced air furnace which is perfect if you wanted to go to an air source heat pump but it’s just too cold here for half the year to be efficient. I also have a wood stove which will heat this one level house using a couple of fans to move the air around Even down to -40 . It supplies probably 70% of our heat. I burn shipping pallets exclusively as everything gets shipped in here and nothing gets shipped out. A lot of them are hardwood and burn really well. And they are free ! Clean and dry and no bark or soot as most of the fire wood here gets cut in previous forest fire burn areas . Three years ago we added 4 inches of interlocking foam insulation and new siding which made a huge difference. You insulate once but you heat the place every day when it’s cold.

 

[Murray20c8]

Why could you only get 135 Amp...Here most put in 200 automatically...Maybe Douggie has you all rationed up-a-long

I was told by the electrician that replaced our panel that that's all the can (or wire in?) is rated for.

 

[1st Vette]

I was told by the electrician that replaced our panel that that's all the can (or wire in?) is rated for.

He was most likely referring to the transformer that you are fed from. They are often referred as a can in the biz . And I suspect if you took a closer look you would see that

your main breaker is actually 125 amp .

 

[Murray20c8]

He was most likely referring to the transformer that you are fed from. They are often referred as a can in the biz . And I suspect if you took a closer look you would see that View attachment 120333your main breaker is actually 125 amp .

Ya, I know that. I just can't remember which it was. Of course he could have been lying to me also! lol

 

[1st Vette]

what do you heat with?

I will add that gas scares the be Jesus out of me. Makes me nervous to barbecue.

 

[Murray20c8]

I will add that gas scares the be Jesus out of me. Makes me nervous to barbecue.

Nothing wrong with a healthy respect for gas. I never smoke and fart at the same time.